Building Community and Business: Lessons from IAMCP Leaders (Part 1)
Welcome to a special edition of Profiles and Partnership. I'm Anthony Carrano, and today we're doing something a little different. Over the past year, we've sat down with some of the most innovative, resilient, and forward thinking leaders in the Microsoft partner ecosystem. We've explored how trust becomes currency, how specialization drives growth, how AI is shaping the way we deliver value, and how mergers, acquisitions, and global collaborations are rewriting rules of the game. This panel is our chance to step back, connect the dots, and ask, what have we learned?
Anthony Carrano:What patterns are emerging? And most importantly, what's next for partners in this upcoming year? Are you ready to join us on this journey? Then stay tuned. We have a great show for you today.
Anthony Carrano:We have Rudy Rodriguez, cofounder, Dunamis Marketing, and cohost of this podcast, and Eddie Bader, international president of IAMCP and cofounder at Rise Partners, sharing their observations and perspectives that will leave you with a clear sense of where the opportunities and the challenges are for partners and where those are headed. Let's dive in.
Anthony Carrano:Okay, well Eddie and Rudy, I'm really glad to have you guys. This is gonna be a fun episode. I can't believe we made it to 25. We've got a year under our belt, so welcome.
Eddie Bader:Thanks, Anthony. It's good to be here.
Anthony Carrano:Excellent. Rudy, I always see you every time, but it's always still good to see you, man.
Rudy Rodriguez:Alive and well. Still alive and well.
Eddie Bader:It's not getting old.
Anthony Carrano:That's what for those that are listening, you know, he didn't reciprocate. So I don't know. Maybe we gotta diagnose that outside of this.
Eddie Bader:That's episode 27.
Anthony Carrano:That's episode 27, that's it.
Rudy Rodriguez:I love you, man. I love you.
Anthony Carrano:I feel it, man. I feel it. I feel it. Well, what a year it's been really excited about this special episode is we're going to dive into just kind of reflections on the past year, that we've observed, what we've learned, kind of talking about, you know, things that we anticipate in the upcoming twelve months. So without further ado, just kind of really want to jump right in.
Anthony Carrano:And one of the big things really as we were reflecting on this past year is that, you know, within the Microsoft partner ecosystem, consistently just, you know, hearing about trust is the currency and culture is the compound interest. Things like ethical leadership, radical candor, and people first values consistently separate the good from the great. And a question I have for you guys is, you know, as we've gone through all these episodes, what's one insight from hearing the stories, you know, from the podcast that changed how you approach partnerships?
Rudy Rodriguez:You know, I don't think I've changed my strategy over the years. One of the things that I've always stressed to, folks at my companies and to partners in IAMCP is that there's a great opportunity for business. You know, And, a lot of us have built companies and and you go through the entire sales and marketing process, trying to land business. And sometimes you're just going to run across opportunities that are not in in your in your quiver of services that you offer. But one of the things I always used to stress to to partners whom I met was, if I learned about your special specializations, then I could introduce you to some of my customers as well.
Rudy Rodriguez:And that's still a philosophy that I still follow. And I think partners are more engaged now and looking for opportunities because so much time and effort and money gets spent trying to land new customers that you have to have a strategy for partnering with other Microsoft partners to help you grow your business. And if you understand how to do that, then I think the partners that we run into realize that that can make up a pretty good chunk of their business, probably as much as 30% of their total revenue. So it's one of the things I continue to stress is, you know, go out and meet partners, learn whom you can trust, and work work with and through those partners to help you grow your business. Eddie, how do you feel about that?
Eddie Bader:Yeah, I agree. I think that, you know, some of these quotes that come to mind from so many episodes. So it's like Natasha, she said, radical candor and clear swim lanes turn partners into long term allies. That means a lot, right?
Anthony Carrano:Yeah.
Eddie Bader:That says a lot in a very brief sentence. And I would just say that oftentimes I've heard of situations where, you know, partners consider themselves to be competition. I think there's so much more to gain from the cooperation of working together, identifying your swim lanes. This is what I'm really good at. This is what you're really good at.
Eddie Bader:We put this together. We go different places. Right? And I think medicine has got it down. Right? You go to your your family doctor. Right? But if it's something, you know, ears, nose, and throat related, you go to the ENT. He he he sends you directly there. It's cardio you know, heart related, sends you to a cardiologist.
Eddie Bader:They all know what they specialize in, and there's a purpose for all of them, and they tend to have that system down really well. And I'm excited to see that this industry is moving towards that. I think we can move faster, but it's great to see that. And I think all of that, to your point earlier, Anthony, is built on trust, right? Knowing that these folks are I'm connected to the right people. And when I say, hey, these are the specialists for this, that you're gonna get the best.
Anthony Carrano:You know, it's interesting guys say that because it's as I kind of ventured into this, the thing that's has really, surprised me the most, and I don't I'm not really sure why, but just how much of an emphasis is was just just coming through these stories just about how the importance of culture, both internal importance of the strong internal culture as well as, you know, cultural fit, you know, with know, with your partners and that it's more than just kind of a transaction. But if you're, wanting it to create like a long term transformation, right, both, you know, in terms of, you know, value for the client and, you know, hopefully future clients, but then also, yes, changing yourself and positioning yourself for some of those opportunities, you know, for repeat opportunities and growth things that like Rudy was talking about, just the importance of culture. And that's one of the things I just did not expect to hear, you know, coming out, you know, in so many of these stories. And so, you know, I'm not sure. I think for me, like the thing about the, just about the changing the approach to partnerships is that just the emphasis on, you know, trying to find guys of really like culture, right?
Anthony Carrano:So it's not a matter of just finding, you know, guys that I mean, yes, it's important to find people that you can work with, right? And that you feel can provide a good value, you know, to your customers, but just the emphasis on a on cultural fit or how much of the emphasis a cultural fit. So I thought that was kind of pretty cool. As you guys were sharing, was there any particular episode or insight, you know, from like, actually, a specific episode that stuck with you guys? I know for me, like one, you know, was definitely it's it's funny because it was actually the the first one.
Anthony Carrano:And I think it served as a real catalyst for a lot of these was, when Eric shared great partnerships turn challenges into launch pads for innovations. And I just thought as a as a way of just really then framing, you know, all these things, going forward. And there was another one, that really stood out to me was actually was Aaron in episode 20. And in that this, I'm gonna just read this where he said trust is the currency, innovation is the multiplier. Together, they compound growth.
Anthony Carrano:And I think maybe part of that too just because that that just that thinking about that culture because, you know, in interviewing, these companies that are you know very you know high you know tech aptitude specialist in their field but just once again going back to the things that are the soft skills and just that currency of trust. That really stuck with me.
Eddie Bader:Yeah, I like that one too. I was actually thinking about that and when you said it kind of made me smile, but something that you were talking about in terms of culture, I think it's really important that it's not just one person who acts a certain way or is highly dependable, highly trustable, but that culture is throughout the organization. Whoever you come in contact with, you're going to get the same expectations are present for everybody, right? Everybody feels that way, everybody acts that way. And I think that's what makes a difference, right?
Eddie Bader:Is between if this is ingrained to the individual versus this is, you know, part of their culture. I think that matters a lot. And I'm excited to see, you know, we have some great examples coming out right now. Like in Seattle, they have a solutions group. This is eight separate organizations have come together to build solutions together. It's not easy to do. It takes a lot of effort and there's gotta be a lot of trust and openness in those dialogues and conversations and really working together to put out solution for clients. You know to work any opportunity you really have to be on the same page there and I think that's a great example.
Rudy Rodriguez:Yeah that's interesting to find out about the Seattle Solutions Group. You know, one of the things that I learned in all these episodes was how do you choose a partner? You know, that was the one question we always asked. How do you choose a partner? So, of course, trust is one thing.
Rudy Rodriguez:Technical specializations is another one. But the most interesting thing was, because we've done this on a global level, was people are the same across the world. There isn't that much difference. And that's one of the things, you know, having been in this business a long time, you develop unconscious biases sometimes. Oh, this person or this country is gonna affect do business this way.
Rudy Rodriguez:Then you really get to talk to them and know them, and they don't. They follow sound business principles, sound technical principles, and good people skills. And and that leads to trust. And that's really, really important. And that's the one thing I noticed because we've talked to people from all over the world, and it's the commonality of the human spirit and and ethics and and just the spirit of the IAMCP in in a very ethical organization, a very technically astute, group of partners that are all striving to deliver better solutions for our customers.
Anthony Carrano:Now that's so true, especially like, I mean, you talk about was just all the folks we've interviewed. I mean, we've interviewed everybody from a lot of different countries, probably about a dozen different countries, different partner types, various sizes. That's, it's interesting because that's, you know, just thinking back, you know, even just to like the first, you know, first question is just the diversity in the community. Right? But to your point, the shared commonality around so many things.
Anthony Carrano:And just while you were while you were sharing, it kind of reminded me of there was a quote that Suresh gave. It was in episode 10 where, and I mean, is, this is a great line. So Suresh, if you're listening, this was fantastic where you said your brand is built in the community long before it's built in the boardroom. Right? And so, you know, to your point about, you know, with the with the ethics and the quality work, and, you know, the delivering, you know, like you said, it's it's building that relation, that brand in that, you know, community of try-
Anthony Carrano:I think that's what makes it because IAMCP members, I mean, they're not going to tolerate people who are not mindful of building their brand in the community and just, you know, they'll, I don't know if you'll, Eddie, don't know if he officially kick anybody out if they're just become transactional, but they definitely don't reap the benefits. Think, you know, the partner collaborations.
Eddie Bader:Yeah. Well, there is a there is a mechanism for removal. We won't get into that today, but I'll just say that it doesn't happen often, thank goodness. But there's something just I mean, these are partnerships or relationships. They're like friendships, right, between businesses.
Eddie Bader:But they are, behind the businesses are people. And I think, you know, when it's all said and done, people have to, you know, we talked about this you know, like, and trust, but if you see somebody acting in a certain way that doesn't align with you, you tend to just to move away from them, right? And so we may not move somebody out of the community, but they may not thrive because nobody's gonna wanna work with them because of the way they approach business. And I'll also say that one of the most powerful, you know, we live in a highly virtual space right now, but I still think one of the most powerful things about this community, other communities, is really getting face to face with people. Those conversations you have, like even if they're at a conference, we had Illuminate in Dallas in March and we have another one coming up in EMEA, but those times and even Inspire, you know, or WPC before that, those you see the same people. So people that live, you know, like, you know, ten minutes away from me.
Eddie Bader:I might not talk to as much, but when you're in that conference, you have three or four days, maybe five days altogether doing stuff. You learn about those people. You learn about who they are, their tendencies. You build this rapport with them, and that goes a long way. If we could figure out a way to accelerate that virtually, I think it can happen virtually, but in person, it's just off the charts the way it happens. I think that's core to building, maintaining and strengthening relationships and partnerships.
Anthony Carrano:Well, I know we've talked a lot about trust and specialization. I know it was definitely a big reoccurring theme in a lot of the episodes. Let me ask you guys from what both just like you observed from these partner stories, right? Specifically, you know, from these partner stories, what were some of the best practices around trust and specialization have you seen emerge as keys to success?
Eddie Bader:I'll jump in on this one. I think sometimes the partners feel like, hey, if I specialize, then I'm gonna be losing out on all this other business, right? If I don't take everything that comes my way. And I think it's just the opposite. I think you become known for being the expert in this.
Eddie Bader:Go back to that medical analogy, right? I am the cardiologist. I'm the ENT. I'm the top in my particular field. And I think Joe Khalaf, he even talked about that leads to better margins too, right?
Eddie Bader:You're an expert. I think we shouldn't shy away from being experts. Even if we're partnering, you you wanna have that person and that team that can come in and just nail it. Right? And there's a lot of value for that to other partners and to the customers when it's all said and done.
Rudy Rodriguez:I'll take a little bit different angle on this one because specializations is so important. One of the things, since we just finished working on nine partner of the year stories, I really learned all about some of the specializations that some of our partners have and how committed they are to being the best in the industry and and how they can deliver significant value to their customers. So whether you're working with partner to partner or, again, developing your specializations, this can take your business up to the next level because now you're seen as a technical specialist, a business a business leader, a thought leader. And guess what? You now partner with Microsoft, which is what a lot of people ask us in the IAMCP.
Rudy Rodriguez:How do I get the leads? One, prove how good you really are, find that business, and then partner with Microsoft by taking specific leads to them as well. In in years past, that's how we built our business was we we would go out and find large enterprise accounts who needed specific particular help, and we would enlist Microsoft's help in helping us land that business. But we had the technical expertise to drive that business. And we worked together to drive licensing revenue for Microsoft, implementation revenue for our companies, and you see partners doing that.
Rudy Rodriguez:And and and again, the specializations prove you can do it. So Eddie mentioned Joe Khalaf. You know, he's got a couple of MVPs on his staff. Our good friend AJ in in Houston is another one, you know, MVPs on his dynamics practice. And there's there's a company I work with here in Austin. They have 11 MVPs on their staff. That's huge. That's huge. And they they partner with Microsoft on business. So people say, how do I get those leads from Microsoft?
Rudy Rodriguez:You have to become really good at what you do. So invest in your company, invest in yourself, invest in your company, invest in your people skills, technical and people skills as well. And that will help you with your specializations and really drive those margins that you're looking for.
Anthony Carrano:That's excellent. That's excellent. You know, as I think about that, like some of the best practice of just kind of like in addition to what you guys are sharing some of the best practices, I think about like some of the like the qualitative team factors. And it's interesting that this phrase came up several times. I mean, came up like I know, you know, Eddie, you had mentioned Natasha, you know, Reynolds, you know, she did an early episode, you know, I also know that, you know, Jerry Power, you know, as well mentioned in the just the talking about clear, you know, swim lanes, right?
Anthony Carrano:And they have clear swim lanes. There's the, you know, you've got the proactive, you know, the the communication. I think the radical candor was the word you used earlier, you know, and then you have that mutual accountability just, you know, to, you know, as part of some of those best practices, you know, for success. So I thought those were, those were really key and just, you know, and then another kind of like a reoccurring like theme I as I think about this, best practices is that it doesn't happen by accident, right? I mean, if you approach it very haphazard and you're ambiguous, it's going to be a disaster, right?
Anthony Carrano:And so every, you know, every one of our guests just emphasizes the importance of, you know, of being that like, you know, true partnership and collaborations and just kind of luck. It doesn't just happen, but you have to be deliberate and you have to design it, you know, to execute, you know, accordingly to kind of get those results. And so I thought that was pretty interesting. I I do want to there was something I was said earlier, you know, just about, you know, the importance of, you know, specialization and niching. How you know, and this did come up in a few times is, you know, what have you guys observed, you know, and just even reflecting on these stories about seem like balancing being a niche expert with, you know, with, you know, staying adaptable. And what I mean by that is responsive, like, to the needs of of the customer. So what are some things like, can you guys speak to that?
Eddie Bader:I would say if I'm understanding you correctly, you know, I'm a specialist, but maybe now my customer is asking me something that's might be outside of my wheelhouse. Is that fair to say? Yeah, I think you have to stay true to yourself, right? That is the first thing that comes to my mind when I hear that is that's part of the opportunity, right? I think if I'm really dedicated, if we're gonna do all the things we just talked about, right?
Eddie Bader:Really focus on our specialty, really, you know, our skilling, our people skills, everything is is pointed in a certain direction and it's it's very exact the the right thing to do is is find somebody who's doing that with this other request right and partner in my opinion right there are times if you're big enough maybe you can have a few specializations but a lot of our partners that we come into contact with it's probably they're suited to having a single focus Right? That that's my take. I I always think of if it's outside of my wheelhouse, let's find the right person for that because ultimately, it's in the best interest of the overall solution, the the customer.
Anthony Carrano:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Rudy Rodriguez:Oh, that's that's interesting, Eddie, in that I've been in the channel for over thirty years now. In in the 1990s, you could do everything. That was that was the one that was the the one mantra in our company was, sure. We can do that. No problem.
Rudy Rodriguez:You can't do that today. You have to be much more truthful and honest about your capabilities, but but and understanding where where your limitations are and but understand that continue to build the trust relationship with the customer and say, I don't do this, but I know someone who can, and then set up those introductions. However you do it, whether you pass it on directly to somebody else or, you know, the thing is if you've built that trust relationship, that customer is gonna say, you know, I just want one person to manage this process. So how can you help me with that? And establish that relationship with customers is how you can be that one person, that moment of truth for them, and you manage those projects whether you know the technology or not.
Rudy Rodriguez:But you manage it because you understand their business. You understand what their motives and motivations are, what they're trying to achieve, and you can find the right partner to help them implement the technology that's going to help them and you're just implementing the right solutions. So I think that's really, really important is to establish that that that business relationship. It's so, so important to to to a business owner or to a decision maker as to why they should choose you. And I think that that that whole thing when you may not have those specializations, you still know people.
Rudy Rodriguez:And that's what the real value of of IAMCP comes in. You know, when we founded IAMCP, we was founded on four principles, partnering, advocacy, community, and education. We shortened that to three three topics later on, but because people couldn't remember all four. But the the important part the important part was was, you know, partnering. How am I going to partner?
Rudy Rodriguez:And how and but you have to understand that partnering is is has multiple multiple aspects to it. There's partnering with other partners and partnering with your client and building trust relationships both ways.
Eddie Bader:Yeah. I I was just gonna say something on that too because we were talking about trust in the context of trust amongst partners, but there's trust amongst the partner and the client as well, and I think that's just as important. I think the idea may be overlooked or underrated, but when a client comes to you and they ask you for help and you tell them, Hey, that's not me. I I have somebody who would do that and is much better at it than I am. That what you've done there is you just you just started building a deeper relationship.
Eddie Bader:You're admittedly opening. You open about what you can and can't do, what your capabilities are, and the fact that you want the best for them and the best in this case is bringing somebody else in to help them with this. That goes a long way. Right? You're starting to submit a very long term relationship by doing that.
Anthony Carrano:And I think that kind of circles back around to, you know, when you're, when you're known for, you know, for being an expert or that trust. And I think, you know, go back to that quote from, you know, Suresh about that's part of building your brain in the community. Like, you're like, okay, this person is honest. They're easy to work with. They're good to work with.
Anthony Carrano:They're, you know, world class and in, you know, these these things. People are gonna wanna, you know, the one they're gonna remember you. You're gonna stand out, you know, for these things that you're world class in, but they're also wanna, you know, you'll be like attracted, you know, they'll be attracted to you as they wanna help their clients who might need some of those things that you're world class and that you're not. So staying true to yourself, I think your point makes you really kind of stand out and grow. Let's talk a little bit about kind of about growth.
Anthony Carrano:I mean, I know, you know, we've talked a lot about, you know, just about innovation and trust, you know, growth a lot of times. I mean, sometimes it can mean like, you know, organic, sometimes it can mean, you know, m and a. There's we've talked a lot about partnership, it could be marketing. Let's explore what it takes to really kind of grow without losing, I guess, your edge and without, you know, losing, you know, being true to who you really are.
Eddie Bader:Yeah. I'm actually really interested in in talking about what we've what we've observed, you know, in that context in terms of, you know, what are the what are some of the biggest changes or shifts you've seen in the the Microsoft ecosystem, you know, this year? Things are constantly changing, but what stands out to you guys the most?
Anthony Carrano:Well, I wanna defer to Rudy to answer this first because he's been there for thirty years. So he's got a lot of perspective.
Eddie Bader:So you keep saying that, and then you wonder why he doesn't respond to you at the beginning of the show. No. He didn't have his thirty years. I'm teasing you.
Anthony Carrano:He said the thirty year number. I'm not outing his age.
Eddie Bader:I'm teasing you.
Anthony Carrano:Nothing but respect.
Rudy Rodriguez:Hey. As I tell everybody, not only am I older, I'm old and slow now. So that that makes a difference. But you know what? You know, the the thing that, the challenges grow I mean, the thing that drives growth is is really kinda it you know, it there's so many different ways I can tackle this.
Rudy Rodriguez:Alright. So one, I remember years ago years ago, when when it first became the cloud partner program, you know, the Microsoft networking program, and then became the cloud partner program. And, you know, now we're in the AI partner program. But I remember talking to partners and said, what are you doing to start changing your organization? You you have to do this every five to seven years when you're a Microsoft partner.
Rudy Rodriguez:You have to start looking forward. And Microsoft actually gives you quite a few tips several years in advance. Hey. We're going to move here. So when it became the cloud partner program, what are you going to do to sell licensing?
Rudy Rodriguez:And I started in the BPOS days, which was really difficult because, one, the product barely worked. And two, now we're having to sell licenses to this instead of being under the Microsoft Open program selling, you know, software boxes. And and those partners who adapted and saw the writing on the wall made a made a lot of money. And now in one of our companies, we got to the point where we're going, hey, we're clearing $50 a month just in licensing. Just in licensing because we adapted early on.
Rudy Rodriguez:I think it was 2013 or something like that when we did it. And and it was difficult. And, you know, what we did is we went to Microsoft, give us the leads that you can't close. And we were getting a couple 100 a week and closing about a third of those.
Rudy Rodriguez:Yeah. Yeah. So what how did we do that? One, we adapted. We we used teams to deliver, high quality webinars on how to use the technology and implement it and what it was going to take. We built a well rounded service about training people around the use of the software and how you could leverage each individual part and how then from a sales perspective, we showed companies how it was going to save them money and and mitigate risk in their organization.
Rudy Rodriguez:And I'll give you one example. We had a state agency here in Austin, had 15,000 people on, GroupWise, Novell GroupWise. So this is going way, way back, guys. But they were moving to, you know, Microsoft March, which was at the time, you know, fairly new. And we sat in the war room with the the client's implementation team.
Rudy Rodriguez:And here's the challenge they gave us. Can you migrate Can you migrate 15,000 people in ninety days? And I could tell you pretty much everyone in the room went, what? There was a couple of other words beyond that. But that was what was one of the words.
Rudy Rodriguez:And we said, alright, we've been given a challenge. Now, how are we going to do it? So one was putting in the right team, and we used nothing but certified people, certified trainers to help them launch that. And I think it was Microsoft Link at the time, not not Teams, by the way. And we we took a look at things.
Rudy Rodriguez:What are the things that are challenging this organization the most? They had over 3,000 backlogged help desk tickets. 3,000. And I said, our first job is to get that down because these people have other issues. Now when we implement this, we're gonna target people and target groups, and we did it.
Rudy Rodriguez:And by doing that and answering their questions and then setting up a knowledge base and setting up our help desk, we took the help desk from 37 people down to two two people and cleared up 3,000 tickets. By using certified help, use of using the technology, showing them how to use it, providing it to our clients to do it while working on the implementation on a nightly basis. And I could tell you, it was a lot of, eighteen hour days and weekends too. But we accomplished that. And guess what?
Rudy Rodriguez:Microsoft well, I mean, we we were a subcontractor to Microsoft Premiere Services. And they came back to us and said, what else do you wanna try? And my answer was a lot of alcohol and drugs right now because I'm exhausted, and I need sleep. And and they let me have a week's worth of sleep before we moved on to the next project. But it's understanding the scope of how you want to help a client and coming up with the strategy.
Rudy Rodriguez:And your strategy is you have to develop a strategy for implementation, a strategy for partnering, and and then the strategy for communicating your successes along the way because you can anticipate issues and problems along the way as well. And if you get out in front of them, you're just gonna be much more successful. So that's a long answer.
Eddie Bader:So we can edit that to Coca Cola and candy later. Right? No.
Anthony Carrano:The title of this episode is Rudy Rodriguez, my life of Drugs and Alcohol.
Rudy Rodriguez:Good to know.
Anthony Carrano:It's it's in the it's in the transcript. It's official.
Eddie Bader:Well, they get more subscribers. I'll tell you that was true. That's it.
Rudy Rodriguez:There's one beer, one bourbon, and one scotch, Eddie. Right. There you go.
Anthony Carrano:That's it. You you asked an interesting question about like the biggest shift you've seen in the Microsoft ecosystem, and Shannon, I know we're gonna spend a little bit of time, you know, here later obviously talking about AI because can't get out of answer, you know, that question without talking about AI. I know we're going to talk about that a little bit later. I think for me the thing, and this is, it's just my perspective. It's just the rise, of just seeing like M&A activity as a as a mainstream, as a growth strategy.
Anthony Carrano:You always think about it in terms of like, oh, it's, you know, large players like the big companies or, you know, the big hedge funds, these, you know, these big private equity groups, but that's actually that's, I mean, yes, they're doing their M&A activity, but it's also a lot of the mid market, and smaller partners, are in the M&A game. And that part has been really surprising to see just the, I mean, just the amount of volume, and some of the reasons, behind some of that, has been really fascinating for me to see. So I've really enjoyed, you know, learning about that.
Eddie Bader:Yeah. I think I think that's a great transition too. We have got an excellent partner with IAMCP who provides us with the IAMCP marketplace, which is IT Exchange. And we've been it's been awesome to have them on the the podcast a few times already. So in talking about mergers and acquisitions and you mentioned strategic exits or that process isn't just reserved for the larger companies anymore and I think success and strengthening your position, it's also based a lot on culture and readiness.
Eddie Bader:I was just curious your perspective on since this is kind of a recurring theme, M&A is always out there. What do you think smaller partners need to understand about this trend and how can they use this process to improve their organization?
Anthony Carrano:Yeah, I know Rudy and I both have a lot of because we actually both sold our previous companies. We've also had the benefit of, you know, being in these, in these interviews. Rudy, are cool if I take this one first?
Rudy Rodriguez:Go for it.
Anthony Carrano:Yeah. So the thing that really, I mean, in terms of like, what do you think about like with the smaller partners is that a big theme. And there was a quote by Ian Pavlik. It was an episode nine where he said a sale ready business is a better business, even if you never sell. And I was just like, that's a really good way to think about it.
Anthony Carrano:And that if you're doing the things that you know, you need to do to sell your business, you're building a better company, right? And so like you win either way, you know, your employees win, your customers win, you as the owner win, by just doing some of those, you know, critical, you know, things, to get your business ready to sell. And you're going to, you're operating and performing better anyway. And that just that M&A readiness, it's, it's, it's like, it's almost like it's a good discipline. It's like a practice that even if you're not selling that you should be doing the things you need to do to build operational health.
Anthony Carrano:Is that, I mean, there's a lot of things that I would share, but that's probably the biggest one that stood out to me. And as I think back on, I mean, like, you know, our current company, but I even think of my previous, you know, company, I was like, oh man, I really, you know, I could have applied that in a lot of different areas. And it would just be interesting to see what some of the outcomes would have been a little bit differently if I would have applied that own advice.
Rudy Rodriguez:Part on that, Anthony. It really is about, do I really know my business that well? And am I documenting my my business processes? So that's one of the things that that we used to do was we documented our entire, you know, KPIs for the entire organization on what we wanted to achieve. So besides a budget, which everyone should have, but we had a strategy that we followed where we would do a strategic planning session every year and then follow that on a on a monthly or quarterly basis.
Rudy Rodriguez:But on top of that, we documented our sales and marketing processes. So we knew what campaigns we're gonna be running. We we had certain behavioral items that we had for our sales teams. How many appointments, how many proposals, how much this, etcetera, etcetera. So we became really good at being able to predict our revenue as well.
Rudy Rodriguez:At the beginning of every month, I would look at the current month and so if we were at a 105% of quota, we were gonna hit quota that month. You know, nothing worse than than a sales organization who's gonna try to hit quota, and they don't know where they are at the beginning of the month. You have to know exactly where you are. And then on top of that, we also built a training plan. So we took all our consultants and said, how am I gonna train these people?
Rudy Rodriguez:What skills do I want them to have? And we had tier one, two, and three type level people. And so the amount of money that we would spend on training those people, because as I mentioned earlier on, was investing in the organization. And we had a process that we documented and said, hey, our technical people will be billable 70 to 80% of the time and 20% of their two thousand eighty hours in a year will be spent on training. And so we had to manage those people to continuously grow their skills.
Rudy Rodriguez:But that's how we were able to keep people for a long period of time because we kept advancing their skills and we kept building the successor generation underneath them. So we were able to do that. So documenting your processes. So as you grow, that's really important because a lot of people in this business start out because they have a client who gets a business and you know how to implement it. Now, where do I go from here? It is a process and it is a strategy.
Anthony Carrano:Well too, and then when you mentioned about the importance about the predictable, you know, revenue, I mean, that's where, you know, I know Tim's talked a lot about this, as well as just that like the valuations are stronger for those that have that reoccurring revenue that defensible IP. So like to your point, if you got your recurring revenue, you kind of know this is where I'm at at the start of every month before, you know, I even have to open up the doors, you know, day one, just so the importance of, you know, for these smaller partners to, I mean, yeah, it's, you know, you chase the big projects, right? But it's, there's something to be said for, know, you're building that, you know, getting those, those incremental reoccurring revenue, Right? And then, you know, how that pays off, you know, big dividends, you know, over time.
Rudy Rodriguez:Your company is a set of building blocks. And do I understand what each one of those blocks does? And that's really, really important. So if you don't have a good CFO or accountant helping you with with the business metrics, get one. Same with sales and sales management.
Rudy Rodriguez:Understand your processes there and and what what performance metrics are important to helping you grow that company. And then last but definitely not least is your technical expertise. How am I going to grow that technical expertise and continue to grow it because that's the success of your business?
Eddie Bader:Yeah. I was just gonna say it's I think we're hitting on some recurring themes, right? And Tim also mentioned in M&A that tech is easy. Right? It's the people and culture that make or break the deal.
Eddie Bader:It's making sure that you have a culture that prioritizes skilling, that prioritizes documentation and processes and repeatable things that you can count on and it's not because those things provide consistency in an operation. Right? If you if you have all those things documented, even if you should have some turnover, you still are performing at a very consistent level. And any business that can do that as opposed to going, you know, peaks and valleys, it ultimately is gonna be more valuable long term. Right?
Eddie Bader:So, yeah. I think this is all everything we've we've been talking about so far is is kind of like a build in this conversation. It's cool. So I know we talked about M&A and I also wanted to talk about the evolving partner roles within organizations and we see partners acting as trusted advisors which has been going on for forever as well as ecosystem integrators and we have this kind of movement from, you know, transactional to transformational partnerships.
Eddie Bader:I think the focus is more moving towards, you know, the transformational long term relationships. And I was just going to ask both of you, you know, if you had a bit on one of these emerging roles, advisor, educator, innovator, which one would you put all your money in on and why is that?
Rudy Rodriguez:Let me go first on that one because you can't pick the same one. So so innovator. Innovator because of AI. AI if you are an innovator and and and especially with the advent of AI, and you can you can innovate, but do it in a trusted, ethical way because there's some things that can go wrong with AI as we all know. It is if you can innovate because you will become a trusted adviser from that because you understand an organization's business processes, what the what the, key stakeholders' motivations are, and and how how to implement the technology to execute all of this.
Rudy Rodriguez:And you can't be afraid to have the tough discussions with stakeholders about why certain things are happening and how you can help drive their their their you know, help drive and meet their business goals. Because business goals don't change much. Right? You have to drive revenue, mitigate risk, and and, I'm having a Rick Perry moment forgetting the third one right now, which I'm always talking about. But it's one of those things that if you can if you can be an innovator and show show companies how you can, you know, drive their growth and and and while mitigating the risk, it's going to help them so much and they start trusting you and say, all right, help us some more.
Rudy Rodriguez:And you do that through innovation and you will develop the business expertise to be a good technical advisor as well.
Anthony Carrano:Yeah, Eddie, I'd like to answer D, all the above.
Eddie Bader:I know, I know, but pick one, he said.
Anthony Carrano:That's a tough one. You know, I think I guess I'd probably then go I mean, you know, I can I can actually I think I can argue for all three, but I would think probably just go then with the advisor because if it's the, you know, kind of piggybacking on theme of like trust and specialization? So if I'm like, I'm gonna be world class in X, I'm gonna be, you know, the preeminent X, you know, expert in X, then, I could provide that type of, know, be that go to advisor, you know, for my partners on behalf of their customers. And so I would probably but it's gonna bleed over into because you're gonna be doing some education. You're definitely gonna be doing innovation.
Anthony Carrano:So since you're forcing me to pick one, I'll pick I'll pick a advisor.
Eddie Bader:That's cool. I have to lean towards Rudy and innovator myself. I I've always thought there's you know, when you look at technology, there's there's what it is and what it can be. And that what it can be is up to the individual that's, you know, using it and wielding it. Right?
Eddie Bader:Just like a chainsaw. In my hands, a chainsaw cuts down a tree. A chainsaw in somebody else's hand creates ice sculptures. Right? And that's a big there's a big difference in the in outcomes of those things.
Eddie Bader:Right? Same tool used very differently for different know, or at least for different purposes. I think that's where some of the innovation comes out is because when we hand we get handed this technology, get handed AI, we get handed, you know, all these things that have been built. We're told what it what it is. We're told what it does, and it's up to us to figure out what it can be, what it can do, right, outside of its, you know, given purpose.
Eddie Bader:And and I think that's where you start finding special things, but that's just my take on that.
Anthony Carrano:I like that analogy with the chainsaw. That's that's good. I'm gonna use that.
Eddie Bader:From alcohol and drugs to chainsaws. We're covering the whole gamut today.
Eddie Bader:Don't use it at the same time though. That's the message.
Anthony Carrano:Not don't operate the chainsaw while under the influence of alcohol and drugs.
Rudy Rodriguez:It would be an interesting TikTok video.
Eddie Bader:Yeah. Well, you know, I don't know about around you guys, but they have like whiskey bars with axe throwing. I'm like, that seems like a horrible combination to me. Yeah. I I want to see it but I don't I want to see it from a safe distance. You know what I mean?
Anthony Carrano:Mhmm.
Eddie Bader:Well, as the advisor, I would say, yeah, don't do that.
Rudy Rodriguez:I would say get some education before doing that. Because otherwise you'll do like I did. And I threw it so hard and low that it came bouncing right back at me. And it was like, everybody behind me went scrambling at the same time. So it can be dangerous.
Eddie Bader:Well, I've actually gone the innovator route because at Costco, they had these plastic axes that you can throw against this board and kind of acts like a, you know, like a Velcro dartboard. It's not Velcro, but it still sticks and every there's no cutting edges and everybody stays safe. If your choice is to consume, you can consume safely. So I think you covered all aspects of that one.
Anthony Carrano:Nice. Nice.
Eddie Bader:So, you know, one of the reasons why we're here doing this podcast is is really around this community, IAMCP. Right? And I think for a lot of things, we know it to be, you know, our the connect, learn, and grow. I connect to people, you know, educate yourself on Microsoft ecosystem.
Eddie Bader:But on technology, on how to partner, you know, we tell people to partner or network, and we assume they know how to do it. But it's actually a skill set that you have to to develop, and there there's a great way to go about it. And so we show those things and then grow, right? Grow your business, grow as an individual, grow your skill set. I think IAMCP has been credited with opening a lot of doors and making a lot of connections globally And I think that's a wonderful thing.
Eddie Bader:And and we have a bunch of references from different episodes from the first 25 episodes, and we have more to share in the next 25 episodes. I was just kinda curious on your thoughts on that is, you know, what have you seen or have you seen IAMCP members help move from just plain networking to, you know, actual business outcomes? What have you what is like, a real cool partner story? Whether it's it was captured in, you know, one of these, you know, podcast episodes or not, what is what is one story that stands out for you guys?
Rudy Rodriguez:Alright. So I'm gonna take up some time here. I I've actually seen quite a few, And and it was it was interesting. There, you know, I just see see them almost on a daily basis. I've been evangelizing IAMCP for thirty years now.
Rudy Rodriguez:And and that's one of the things that that I've worked with with so many different partners in either helping them with particular business issues that they're having to help them grow their business or helping them drive and create their partnerships, to to grow their business or to partner with key people to develop a product that can turn into a business. So I've I've been on all three on all three. And so one of the most successful ones I've seen was working with a former president of IAMCP, Randy Steinle, and a good friend of mine, and working with him and putting together all the pieces to to turn into his HIPAA HIPAA type, organization, his grading organization that he did, and building that software services where he grew that into a multimillion dollar business and turned around and sold that. That's a great way to because he came to me and says, can you help me with this? Alright.
Rudy Rodriguez:Well, let's take a look at the organization and see where this is not working. Let's figure out what's not working. And he was approaching everything from a straight sales perspective. No. Let's look at the technology as well.
Rudy Rodriguez:Who's going to do that? Who are the key people and what are their what are their credentials to to solidify and verify that this is gonna be a solid product? And then identifying the key markets, the the key players, etcetera, and then identifying key players across the country who could help them resell that service. So going through MSPs who were servicing doctors' offices, hospitals, and clinics, things like that, who also wanted to make sure their clients were HIPAA compliant. And so through learning how to build all that stuff was people working together to build a solution that was going to drive and it turned into a very successful business.
Rudy Rodriguez:So that's one. That's one. I saw one this week where our our good friend, John Nicolau, put out a a thing. He said, hey. We've got a client who is spending x amount of dollars on Azure per month and, you know, how Microsoft's moving to direct CSPs.
Rudy Rodriguez:Any of you out there want to do that? So I knew a couple and turned both those partners on to John who's now working with them to see if they can drive that business because it's a substantial amount of revenue. And, you know, I've also worked with, you know, again, many other partners is to how do how do we put help people put this together? And I think having been a member of IMCP and and having been in multiple roles that you learn a lot about the organization and about the players in the organization and how you can connect those people with each other. And then as those people who know me well enough, I'll I'll make you learn this Microsoft stuff.
Rudy Rodriguez:You have to learn it because that's what's gonna drive your business, and that's what's gonna help you grow your business. So those are some examples. I have a bunch of them. I wish I could tell you all of them, but it but it's a bunch of them and and could be very successful. And I'm sure you do too, Eddie.
Eddie Bader:Yeah. For context, that that that opportunity to move to CSP that Rudy was talking about, that wasn't a small opportunity. There was, like, $25,000 a month that they were talking about in an opportunity there. It's pretty, pretty amazing that you can find that community.
Anthony Carrano:Yeah, know for me, like as I think about our episodes in particular, there was one that's always stood out to me and it was actually it was a story that Carl Mazzanti in episode 16 that he shared about it was in he was talking about in 2012. So it's been a while, right? But it was when Hurricane Sandy came in and hit and it just I mean, it just caused so much, you know, devastation there. And I think maybe part of it that resonated with me because of like my extended family is all, you know, from New York as well. So I know a lot of them were impacted, but he just talked about, you know, Carl specifically was talking about, you know, just the power of IMCP even, I mean, back then.
Anthony Carrano:Right? And, you know, where they had hundreds and hundreds of servers go down for so many customers. And, I mean, here he is. He's standing like, you know, knee deep in, you know, sewage and, you know, having to use baby wipes because there's like no running water. And what does he do?
Anthony Carrano:You know, I mean, they had, like I said, all these customers, you know, were were were devastated. They had he was talking about how they had, you know, partners from multiple like states, you know, come who were not affected, you know, by the hurricane come to help out. And they were able to get every customer restored within, you know, seventy two hours just because they had, you know, all these IAMCP partners, you know, drive in and and help them out. And I thought that was kind of a cool story, right? Because you know, a lot of the stories that we I mean, you know, where the stories that all the a lot of the other stories we heard were, you know, they're it's all very proactive. They're great stories of creating value. This is one where you had a crisis, you know, hit and it's just reactive and just kind of like the rapid response of the community and I thought that was pretty cool. So that one kind of stands out to me in particular.
Eddie Bader:Yeah, I'm very, very proud of this community for a lot of reasons but especially in those times of need. Community shows up for one another, you know, especially if something happens and it's not unique to us, but it's nice to know that we have that. That's part of our culture is go out of our way to figure out what we can do to help. And we don't necessarily have to be asked, right? We're asking, Hey, what can we do?
Eddie Bader:Can we show up? What can we send you? And I think that's wonderful. That provides a lot of energy into the And even, I will even say that we're not even, know, that's a response to a disaster situation. But even more importantly, think what we're also doing is you see the proactive nature of this is volunteerism, right?
Eddie Bader:Community outreach, trying to make a difference in communities, whether it's providing scholarships, whether it's providing, you know, training, just going out into these communities which we live in and serve, it makes a huge difference. Builds that connection and bond. I am really grateful for all the partners and the chapters around the world that are that are doing that. I think it's wonderful.
Anthony Carrano:What a great episode. Well, wraps up part one of two. You wanna stay tuned for part two that's gonna be coming here in a few weeks. If there's one thing this year's conversations have made clear, it's that the Microsoft partner ecosystem is a living, evolving community. Trust and culture remain the foundation.
Anthony Carrano:Specialization and innovation are definitely the accelerators, and collaboration, whether across the street or across the globe, is the multiplier. As we look to this next year, the partners who will thrive are those who can balance speed with governance, ambition with ethics, and growth with purpose. To our listeners and past guests, thank you for being part of this journey. And to every partner out there, keep building, collaborating, and turning possibility into progress. Thank you for joining us on this episode of IMCP profiles and partnership powered by Dynamis Marketing.
Anthony Carrano:We hope you enjoyed this podcast and find it useful and inspiring. If you did, please subscribe, rate, and review us on your favorite podcast platform. One of the best ways to partner for success is to join IAMCP, a community of Microsoft partners who can help each other grow and thrive. IMCP members can find and connect with other partners locally and globally and access exclusive resources and opportunities. Whether you're looking for new customers, new markets, or new solutions, IAMCP can help you achieve your goals.
Anthony Carrano:To learn more, visit the website at www.iamcp.org.
