How Microsoft Partners Win with P2P Collaboration, AI, and Data Strategy
Welcome to the IAMCP Profiles in Partnership, the podcast with Microsoft Partners and IAMCP members share how they accelerate business growth by working together. I'm your cohost, Anthony Carrano. And in each episode, we'll meet some of the most innovative and successful partners in the Microsoft ecosystem. Whether you're seeking fresh customers, new markets, or cutting edge solutions, this show shines a light on how collaboration within the IAMCP community helps partners thrive. We'll dive into real stories, lessons learned, and the best strategies to boost customer loyalty and grow your revenues.
Anthony Carrano:So whether you're just starting out or leading an established Microsoft partnership, get ready for insights and inspiration that you can put to work in your business. But before we jump in, let me ask you, are you maximizing the power of partnership in your business? Or are you still trying to go it alone? What could your team achieve if you combine technical expertise with strategic relationship building? And how might transparent collaboration and trust help you overcome challenges and unlock new opportunities?
Anthony Carrano:Think about these questions as you listen to today's episode. It might just spark the next big opportunity for your business. We're joined today by Global and America's P2P solution provider award winners, Promod Antony, president and CEO at Logic Intelligence, and Denny Ghim, director of channel sales at Sandler Partners. Let's hear what they have to say. Well, Promod and Denny, welcome back to, Profiles in Partnership. It's so good to see you guys again.
Denny Ghim:Thanks for having us.
Anthony Carrano:Excellent. Well listen. I know, you've been on before, and that was a fantastic episode. I mean, actually, it was it was so good. We actually had to split into two episodes. So for those who are listening, you should go back and and check that out. But for those in our audience who don't know you, why don't you guys start off and tell us a little bit about yourselves?
Denny Ghim:I'm Denny. I'm with Sandler Partners. We're what's called a technology service distributor. It's an interesting, situation where we're a parallel type of, organization that originally started off in the telco space and has expanded into all areas of technology now. And that line is now blurred.
Denny Ghim:So we offer the full stack of tech, everything from IoT to software development to basic Internet services and cybersecurity, even physical security at one single location where providers can come and partners can come and use all of our services, and and buy from us, through our through our network, at no cost to enhance their businesses and help them grow. So we do two things here, at least as myself as a channel manager at Sandler Partners is I recruit and make agents. So I I bring our our our tool chest to to the to companies like Permods, and, and I also, make agents, and then then I bring business too if I can. So in this case, that's what I did is I brought potential opportunities and I blossomed with Promod and it's been a fantastic experience. But yeah, that's me in a nutshell.
Promod Antony:Yeah, so our company, Logic Intelligence, we are a technology solutions provider specializing in data, AI and business applications. So what that means is like we bring all the data together, even if it's like a machine data or any kind of data. We source the data and prepare the data, cleanse the data, and then bring all these information to one place and create data analytics on top of it, or advanced analytics or AI processes. And we are also into ERP systems like Dynamics 365 Business Central, Dynamics 365 Sales, all this mix. And there is a lot of Power BI, Power Platform development as well, Power Automate process. And now we are also stepping into HDK AI development as well.
Anthony Carrano:Excellent, excellent. And I know we've got some questions that we really wanna get into, especially about your story, your P2P story, just some other aspects. Before we do though, why don't you share with us just what's been happening just in your companies, just since our last time that we chatted?
Denny Ghim:My company is we've been growing, at a rapid pace as, I think AI has driven a lot of that growth in a lot of different industries. It's opened up the world of possibility, just utilizing AI as a tool to expedite repetitive tasks and improve on current development and so forth. And so it's created this superhuman power to accomplish things that, you know, we would have looked back and thought, wow, that's too cost prohibitive or complicated to design. And we just kind of imagine it, and then I bring it to Pramod, and he builds it for me, and then we go out and sell it.
Anthony Carrano:Nice. Nice. Yeah.
Promod Antony:Yeah. In our company, there is good and bad. I mean, there is, like, AI. On one side, there is a enterprise customer who are moving more of more of their stuffs to AI, and they just cut down lot of projects because AI can't do that. Right? I mean, on the other side, what we are seeing is the need of AI. I mean, so we we are, yeah, pivoting very fast. I mean, we are changing our marketing styles. We are changing it. I mean, traditionally, we were all consultants and and now we are thinking of, oh, oh, now what what do we do?
Promod Antony:I mean, we are we are not just consultants. We actually create all this knowledge over these twenty five years. Our company is twenty five year old company. Been doing all this consulting, and now we are hearing more and more stories of, oh, I wanna get into the AI side. And companies doesn't know how to actually get into it.
Promod Antony:Like a like, it may be a technology it may not be a technology company. They wanna get into the technology, adopt AI, and they think it's easy as like switching on or buying a product. No, it's not. So we are seeing some opportunities in that area and different other areas when customers come back and say, they try it, they try to build the edge indicator or something, they come to us and ask, is there a way you can help us out? So technology consulting in a different approach, partnering with different development teams and different businesses, variety of businesses to build that kind of products. So that's what we are seeing right now.
Denny Ghim:I would even add to that, what I think I'm experiencing, because I'm at the cutting edge, at the front of talking to and interfacing with customers, And I'm the old school dinosaur that still knocks on doors, calls people directly, works my network. I do all those things. But what's really, fun and interesting is when I get into these conversations, it's, it's not the same old, hey. I have this widget I wanna sell to you, but they're asking for things. Can you build this for me? Can you create this process where, you know, these sensors will evaluate whether my machines need, you know, repair? Or can you create this automation so that all of these, you know, billings and everything else can be done? Or can you answer questions as a AI bot and talk in a human voice and communicate with my customers and actually do it in a way that it feels human? All of these questions have really started to percolate up. And so what I love to say is, yeah, yes to all of it. But you got the money and we got the time. And right now, it is kind of feels like a little bit of a technology gold rush.
Anthony Carrano:Uh-huh.
Denny Ghim:Where I'm trying to get all the picks and axe and axes and trying to, you know, find those opportunities, carve out and be the Coca Cola, be the first one on on scene that is kinda makes that, you know, first kind of planting the flag of, hey, this is what we develop, and we wanna be example to others and do good with AI as opposed to turning it into our future overlords.
Promod Antony:Well, I kinda like the the one two three. So if the customer can dream it, you can kinda strategize it, and then Promod can build it. So that's I think that's a good frame good cadence.
Denny Ghim:Yeah. Yeah. It works out.
Anthony Carrano:That's awesome. Thank you, you know, for those updates. That's that's fantastic. Rudy?
Rudy Rodriguez:So, gentlemen, I read the story last night that of, you know, what this this P2P win was for you. So let's let's talk a little bit about that. Can you tell us a little bit about the you know, what you guys did, you know, who the client you know, what the client did, what industry they were in. We know it was a nonprofit, so I'll say that, but what the technology was implemented and what benefits they got out of the solution that you guys built for them.
Promod Antony:Yeah, so the story is, I mean, we didn't know each other until we came to IAMCP, right? And there is this P2P networking event that Paul Solski put together from the Seattle chapter, and we happened to be in that meeting. And the idea was to actually come up with, mean, there's like this breakout rooms, right? And then we came into the, we happened to be in that same breakout room. Even if Denny is also from Oregon, we I actually met him at the in the breakout room.
Promod Antony:We introduced ourselves and we create, we are supposed to create a business idea from all the groups involving all the group members in that breakout role. And Denis came up with this, he brought a real opportunity to the table And we formed that, so I can do the data analytics, had another person can do another one. And we formulated the idea and presented it in front of the whole team. And the next day we were at the coffee, I mean, we scheduled some time for a coffee and we chatted for a little bit longer and that idea came out to be the to a real project. And, Denny, do you wanna tell the rest of the story?
Denny Ghim:Yep.
Promod Antony:Who the client is and everything?
Denny Ghim:So, you know, as a sales guy, I I tend to forecast and I build pictures in my brain. Well, a big picture of what what things could happen. So this particular client, I was looking for a solution, and it just by happenstance, Promod was the right guy that does the data analytics for them, for this particular type of solution. As I explained what we were looking for, Promod immediately identified things that I wouldn't have even recognized, and he kind of formulated that that solution. From that, I was able to, you know, pull down a scope of work.
Denny Ghim:We developed, kind of a go to market plan. And, you know, to Promod's credit, the the the client asked for, two to three different other quotes. So I went out to other software developers and pulled those guys in to be able to provide those quotes. But I knew Pramod would win. It was head and shoulders.
Denny Ghim:You know, when you're dealing with these larger companies that go out and and do these developments, it is kind of like I feel like they're fishing to see how much money they can pull out of you. And for a nonprofit, it's kind of a a game killer. You know, it's just like you you can't really approach it that way. And so the numbers they were throwing out and the and and not being very specific and being very vague, killed the deal where Promod was just the opposite. He was providing a great value.
Denny Ghim:He was very precise. He was very very much able to quantify what he was gonna deliver. And to, myself, if I was to put myself into the position of, being a buyer, that's what I'm looking for. I want, you know, clear value. I want clear representation of what I'm getting and a clear communication, and those were delivered.
Denny Ghim:So thus started a wonderful relationship between Promod and myself as, I loved his style, and I think he likes my style too because I've always been a very relational salesperson and and really feel like I'm more of a counselor than a consultant a lot of times, as I I really need to understand the pain and how to address it. And even if there's not a solution I can provide, I love to be able to find them a person or a company that actually can provide it for them. And as long as I kind of lead with that, I feel like everything else takes care of itself. But that's really, I think, the beauty of our current relationship as it has spawned many more ideas and opportunities going forward. As we're probably working on another three or four other opportunities together, It's I'm hoping it just continues to build because there's a huge need, and there's a huge it's really kind of limited to imagination, it feels like.
Denny Ghim:As I mentioned before, it's the technology gold rush, as we're all trying to find a good place of where things fit because the way things have been done in the past, some of the basics of doing outreach have changed and the protocols have changed. So I have to be sensitive and we're all sensitive to those changes.
Promod Antony:And do you want to say the name of the client?
Denny Ghim:Yeah, go ahead.
Promod Antony:Yeah, we are mainly it's actually for Oregon Food Bank, a nonprofit organization here. So it's very fortunate to do projects for them. It's we feel very good too doing that project data project really fantastic people.
Rudy Rodriguez:Promod, can you tell us a little bit more about what the solution was that your organization built?
Promod Antony:Yeah, so previously they were all on prem doing all this manual data collection and bringing the data to the log Band Aid, on Band Aid, on top of Band Aid. And when we came in, we actually proposed to bring everything to the cloud, to Azure environment, and Microsoft Fabric, Azure, all those automation. And to convince that, there is a learning curve, right? People, when, you know, we have done a lot of on prem to cloud migrations, but it's not just the project, it's also the migration of the on prem to a Azure environment. So to show them this is the benefit which you're getting.
Promod Antony:And then we also brought in the nonprofit grant to help them to get that extra little bit, every little bit of money count, right? So we actually brought in that, and then they were convinced to get into the cloud. So going through that step of educating them throughout the process of getting in the code process itself, it's was also challenging. But once we got in this project was to unify the data, create the unified data analytics platform where they can take decisions on the fly. Previously, they would have to wait lot of time to run the report. Now they are able to get on demand reports on the fly. And the process is also streamlined and automated.
Rudy Rodriguez:I'm sure you save them a lot of money by being able to make decisions on a more timely basis as well.
Promod Antony:That's right. Exactly.
Rudy Rodriguez:That's great to hear.
Denny Ghim:Beautiful thing about Oregon Food Bank is they are kind of a model for the rest of the state and a lot of other state organizations of how they operate and could lead very much into their best practices will be copied and shared with other organizations. So I think it's a double fold for Promod and I. It's like, I'm a big believer in feeding people. And, you know, what we see happening at Oregon Food Bank is there's been a lot of, you know, turmoil with what's the, grants and stuff that have come from the federal government. They have had to scramble. And so we're doing our part in helping them be more efficient. And, I think it's a good feeling to be able to be part of that.
Rudy Rodriguez:Yeah. Well, I think it's a great use case for both of your companies to help you, you know, talk about your solution that you've built. So I highly encourage you to build that use case right there. That's great.
Denny Ghim:Sounds good.
Rudy Rodriguez:So, I'm going to dive into a little bit about your partnership because you talked about, and I want to hear more about it because I know Paul Solosky that you mentioned, he and I are friends. And, you know, I want to hear more about what was the initial spark? You know, you said you went into a room and, you know, did Promod light up, Denny, or did you light up? Did Denny light up for you? What was the initial spark that led you to say, hey, I think I want to work with this guy, and I want to I want to see how we can work on more opportunities together? And I know you have, because you just said you had three or four more opportunities that you're working on. Can you tell us a little bit more about that?
Denny Ghim:I've been attending the Seattle chapter of the IAMCP for at least a year, at least a year or so. And, you know, being new to the organization and trying to share the concepts of what my organization can do for partners, was didn't seem to be taking hold, so I wasn't getting any takers. So I decided to find a partner to be able to plug into. When I found Promod in in this, particular group, it was what sparked for me is Promod's in my backyard, and he's doing data analytics. And it was it was something that I was actually, you know, kinda percolating in my brain.
Denny Ghim:So when I saw him go into one of these rooms, and and by good fortune, Paul put Promod and I in the same room, and we're neighbors in Portland. So that automatically perked my interest in wanting to see somebody in person and spend a little time. So that's to me what really kind of got things going, not only and then we do travel up north, a three hour drive up north. Promod and I both do to meet with our partners up in Seattle. So we we go back and forth.
Denny Ghim:But anyway, that's that's what kind of sparked my interest. And then also learning about Promod's company and his company culture and how he treats his customers and the successes that he's had. It's kinda like I don't know if you watched that movie, The Spartan 300, small but mighty. You have 300 soldiers going in facing a million people or a million other fighters. I kinda love that strategy.
Denny Ghim:It's like we come in as a very highly efficient organization, small group, very focused, and we're designed to accomplish the goal. That's where I really enjoy this type of environment where I feel that's, you know, all the big companies, every a lot of the vendors that I start seeing nowadays, they're just trying to upscale, do more and more and more. But I'm trying to do more quality and go deeper and wider with my clients and really treat them like a real partner where the things that I want to do with the organization and and Pramod may align with this. I'm pretty sure we do. The partners that we bring in to and we go do work for, we're not trying to go get a 100 of them. We want maybe 10 or 20 that are are doing the same thing and make them the top of the food chain and win all the time with the technology and the services that we provide.
Promod Antony:I think it was my second or third meeting, and this P2P, that group was actually new to me. And I was put into the spot. Right? I mean, we got a guy into this breakout room, and we have to create the create a solution and come back and do the presentation. So we actually, we were put into that spot.
Promod Antony:So we and Denny brought the idea and I thought, oh, why not? This is actually great. This is actually a nice one. And we we brainstormed it outside, not just we didn't keep it in that room, we actually took it outside. Right away, I got Denny's email and we set up a coffee meeting outside of that and we follow it through.
Promod Antony:That was really helpful. And then, since then, we start to go, like Denny was mentioning, we started to go to this Seattle chapter meeting in person. That actually made a very good difference too. And that's where we start to form that team with Paul Swalski and rest of the Seattle Group. We have around eight or nine businesses in that group providing somewhat different solutions, but we come as a team.
Rudy Rodriguez:You know what I like about that? This is a great story, guys, because salespeople and technical people don't always mesh and you guys did it. So that's a great story.
Promod Antony:From my background, twenty five years ago, I was a programmer, totally doing coding and work my way to the CEO of the business. So my I'm not a salesperson when it comes to sales and marketing. My I will I will I will talk more technical. And the other person in the other side, then they're they they don't get it. Right?
Promod Antony:But Denny, other hand, he's the sales guy. He's a hunter, he actually hunt that. So for me, I can take the technical side of it. So technical presentation, doing that part, I can take it. But that hunting part, right, that's where Denny, so our combination actually was really good for us to take it further. We were mentioning, there are other opportunities, four zero five, other opportunities that we are working on as well.
Rudy Rodriguez:Well, I think what you guys are a symbol of, you know, it takes teamwork to go wider and deeper with customers. It takes teamwork and to work together to build solution for customers. So it's a great story that you guys have put together. Anthony, do you have some more questions?
Anthony Carrano:Yeah. I mean, that's it's, really fascinating to hear just, you know, themes of of just the the depth of collaboration, just the the proactive, aspects of it, the fact of the different backgrounds. But let me ask this, I mean, can you share a time maybe when things like the partnership maybe didn't go as planned, and what did you learn about resilience or leadership from that experience? And if you don't have an example from your guys' experience in partnering together, maybe share of another example without revealing names, but
Rudy Rodriguez:Oh, no. We wanna hear names.
Denny Ghim:Well, I'll I'll start. So Promod and I recently ran into a hiccup with one of our clients without naming any names. But, here's my, years of experience in sales is I recognize that sometimes you run into a hiccup where, you know, initially, you go smoothly, and then there's a hiccup where they say, hey. You know, we're not really interested in moving forward. That, is just sales one zero one.
Denny Ghim:The first no is not no. I mean, if I said if I heard the first no when I met my wife, we had never been married. So, you know, I we've been together thirty five years now, so I feel like I'm a pretty good salesman. I've kept her, you know, happy and working towards, you know, keeping that going. I feel like a lot of the part of the sales process is making sure that that relationship we're playing we're playing catch, and this is part of some of the sales training that I've been involved with and also the relationships of understanding the, the nuances of just the human relationship.
Denny Ghim:So just because somebody disagrees with you at at one point doesn't mean that that that's that's all done because you've already done all of this good work and that counts for something. So those things are the things that we continually drip on. And this is, again, sales one zero one where you continually reach out and and touch. And, through that, there are other venues of business that can be continued on to eventually write over. And, I have kinda sprawled my relationship out in that organization so that I have feelers in different areas.
Denny Ghim:So I know that, eventually, when some things are going good over here, I can slowly start pulling over the information because they're continuing to do their evaluations and all of their other stuff. I'll recognize an opportunity to bring Promod and bring the whole thing back together again. And so for me, in our experience, Promod and I had this conversation, it's it's actually a great learning experience because we've already gained all of this paid, you know, knowledge that we're actually gonna bring to market in other areas. But that doesn't mean that this one relationship is ending. It's just on pause. Right? It's no means maybe later. That that that's what it sounds like to me.
Denny Ghim:So, anyway, that's that's that's what I've experienced. You wanna add something there, Promod?
Promod Antony:Yeah. I mean, when we are doing business, it's not always I mean, it won't always go up. Will be ups and downs. Is and if there is no downs, it's not a business. Basically, we try to find solutions to those issues and we move on.
Promod Antony:And there are times when Denny brings an opportunity, but then we may not be having that full resources. So, there may be like, we can do parts of it, but we may not have resources to it. So, it's not like a issue issue, but it's a good issue to solve. And then we won't actually say fully no to the whole thing. We what we find is we find partners.
Promod Antony:So then that's when we look into other partners who can do small parts of the other project. So we are doing multiple of those kinds of projects where we bring in and partner with other companies to get on this other project. So it's not a fully issue issue, but it's a good issue to solve.
Denny Ghim:It's a good lesson that we learned, I think, even in elementary school is playing well in the sandbox. You know, we all want the same Tonka truck. We all want the same, you know, shovels. We want all that stuff. But if we cooperate well together, we build an awesome sandcastle.
Denny Ghim:And that's really how simple I look at things is a lot of times there's a lot of overlap with our partners and whatnot. But as long as we can draw good lines, work together, cooperate, it strengthens our relationship and builds a reputation overall of look at these technologists coming together and providing this amazing solution. Yeah. So that's that's really the exciting part about what we do.
Promod Antony:And we didn't have a lot of issues between us when we were doing most of the time, we were transparent about what we are doing. We have meet regular meetings to talk about what's going on, and everyone has to be compensated for their time. I mean, it's not like one way I get the project, take on and go. So it's not a work it doesn't work that way. It's sharing.
Promod Antony:Sharing is scary. And so Denny brings a project. He gets I mean, he's also getting getting off that. So we we both share the the revenue and and things like that. That's and it's very open.
Promod Antony:I mean, open to us what we get, and Denny knows what we are bringing in, all those kind of, and we actually have also have agreement in place so that we are not talking about, I mean, issues later. So we are taking all those necessary steps in the beginning to write down what we agreed upon, and how we are getting paid, and all those. So we are avoiding those issues later.
Denny Ghim:That reminds me, I need to talk to you about that contract of ours. Just kidding.
Anthony Carrano:No, that's fantastic. I mean, it's always, it's really good just to hear what, you know, is a good example of what true teamwork, you know, really, really entails, and I think it's it's kind of a, I mean, that word teamwork and just, I mean, I think you guys are embodying that, I mean, it's the team, you're you're approaching it, you know, as a as a team on how with the customer as, you know, as the focus, making sure. But then, you know, you're rolling up your sleeves and you're working, and you're each doing your part, you know, exceptionally well. But not only just working on behalf of the customer, but just hearing you guys, there's also just a lot of ongoing work just to, you know, into the team, you know, which is really good to hear, and I hope a lot of our listeners kinda take out, you know, some of those principles and apply it, you know, apply it for them. So I really appreciate you guys sharing.
Rudy Rodriguez:Alright, guys. Let's talk a little bit about what's taking place in the marketplace today today. You know, Microsoft Ignite just took place. And I think, you know, I watched a lot of the sessions and I think, they only said two words, AI, AI, AI. Right?
Rudy Rodriguez:So with AI and automation just reshaping the whole partner landscape now, because that is what's happening and everybody's having to adapt. What's one area where you see partners both leveraging, and or underestimating the opportunity that's out there before them? Denny, you wanna tackle that first?
Denny Ghim:So what I see, is there's a huge rush, to jump on the bandwagon and and and create AI shelfware, to just jump on AI for the sake of it. And, what I caution clients to do is just to just to take a moment and think through the processes that would really help them because, you know, it's it's easy to wanna push the easy button and say, oh, man. AI, that's, like, gonna think for me and do everything. Now it it really isn't gonna do that for you. But if you use the tools that that AI is bringing to the forefront, really understand it and bring a I mean, is no good if it doesn't have a good data analytics person to pull that data together and apply it to help that organization, and then also use the AI in repetitive tasks to go out and do simple like communications and then build the foundation and then go up from there.
Denny Ghim:I feel like it's too easy to just go super complicated. There's a lot of things that we have to start on the on the foundational level. So that's been my kind of conversation and my mantra is that, yeah, new technology is great. AI is great, but here's what we've learned from, I think, lessons from social media and the Internet is that, you know, we as human beings dove headfirst into it, and then there's been a lot of casualties, from that. And my my belief is let's let's just take it a a minute slower.
Denny Ghim:Let's learn from our past mistakes and understand how the AI can be used in the most proficient manner with the right experts helping us along the way. And, from that, much more can can happen, but, take a pretty steady, thoughtful process rather than just, know, grabbing the latest widget. That's that's just kind of what I say. But that's that's what I've been pushing out in my conversations.
Rudy Rodriguez:How about you, Promod?
Promod Antony:Yeah. Yeah. Everyone wants to be become a frontier firm, as Microsoft was mentioning. Everyone wants to become a frontier firm. And in the future, there is gonna be, like, AI taking care of AI, another AI agent. And then there will be like a human handling like 50 different agents. So that's their work to make sure that agents are working side by side, right? So that's the vision. But to get to that level, it's not like a switch on kind of thing. It has to have that foundation.
Promod Antony:As a data guy working, having experience over this twenty five years experience going through this data world. Initially, we are having it's only like website development. So we know the path, how we came from, right? Like there's website development, and then there is all this credit card website and all those. They wanted to bring all the data to one place now.
Promod Antony:Then later it was called BI. And then now it's basically it's the same data. I mean, we need data. If there is no data, then there is no AI or frontier firm. So, what I am I am, getting here is from the market is everyone wants to become a frontier firm, but they don't know how to where to start.
Promod Antony:Even the infrastructure. They are seeing all these different tools out there. There is Google tools, there is Microsoft tools, there is other third party tools, and it can add it to the subscript. I mean, they add all these tools to the subscription and their subscription cost may be like $400 or $500 per person. And when you add it up to like a 100 employees, that adds up.
Promod Antony:So the tools which you're choosing, if you are on Microsoft side, there are tools which you may not need other tools. And, but then you can use even the Microsoft tools, you can use AI Foundry to, in that there is all the other, you can use other models to train the data. So there may be things which you can use to solve the problem without going through the other subscription. So from the market perspective, they had to have a good strategy. What are the kind of software they're going to be using?
Promod Antony:And the security measures, how they are gonna be rolling out, where they are gonna keep the data? Those are all key to the success of becoming a frontier firm.
Rudy Rodriguez:Well, you brought up a couple of good points and I wanna kinda dive into that because one of the things we want to do, I want to ask you this question. You know, you brought up all these tool sets that people want to implement. And Denny, you brought up, you know, take a look at your processes and, you know, partners have to adapt to how the marketplace is changing. Let's look ahead one or two years, okay? One or two years.
Rudy Rodriguez:What do you think is going to define the most successful Microsoft partners, you know, in specializations, innovation skills, or community? You know, how they work within a community? What's a Microsoft partnership gonna look like in the next couple of years?
Denny Ghim:Go ahead, Promod.
Promod Antony:Yeah, I think the marketplace, the Microsoft marketplace is gonna have lots of AI agents. People are gonna actually put to their agent, just like when we hire people, we are trying to get their talent to work on something, right? Just like that, there will be more agents in the marketplace. So we can buy one agent to do the work itself, hiring more people, there will be people will be hired for taking care of the agents. And if they are not ready to learn that process of taking care of the agents, then it will be questionable how they want to survive in that particular organization.
Promod Antony:So definitely there will be agents working hand in hand to do the work. I I cannot imagine now with using, I mean, right now we have been using Copilot for maybe one and a half years since it actually started, right? Now, I am using it in every aspect of it, writing the email or getting the suggestion, doing the research, getting the idea, all this. So it's a part of my kind of habit of doing the development or doing the research. So think of like when it comes to two years, we are relying upon agents, more and more agents. Then I think that's where the world is going.
Rudy Rodriguez:So, Denny, I'm gonna ask you this. How do you think it's gonna affect from the sales process side, how do you think it's gonna affect you?
Denny Ghim:I think it's similar to what Promod said. So I may be one of the slower adopters. I love technology, but I'm I'm a little more cautious about jumping in too quickly on things. And maybe it's because I've been burned too fast. Like I've I was when I was younger, I would jump in head first everything a 100% and then end up burning myself up.
Denny Ghim:So I'm a little slower these days. I'll I'll stick a toe in and then a leg, and then maybe I'll swim around for a little bit. So my thought process around how AI is working, and I'm I'm I am using AI myself, you know, and formulating interactions, utilizing communications, automation is a big thing that I think is prevalent, but I'm trying not to do it in a way that is, drone like. You know, how many of us get our email boxes filled with these you can almost feel the drone of, you know, hi. I'm Jane, and I've got this for you, blah blah blah.
Denny Ghim:And it's the same kind of automation. And so what I'm trying to do is do a combination of it by utilizing AI and generating ideas, personalizing and bringing the human into it and doing the outreach. I don't know if you guys ever watched that movie, Jerry Maguire, where, you know, it's like that personal attention thing like that. That stuck with me back in 1996. I'm dating myself, but that's okay.
Denny Ghim:That that was like an epiphany to me is, you know, in order to be a good salesperson and just a good person in general, it it requires that personal attention. And so I'm using AI in that area where it can enhance and maybe even develop, deepen those kind of communications, the things that I'm looking for. And then I'll bring in the human and I'll do that outreach. I think that's going to be good. I think what's also important to note is that in one to two years, if you're one of those organizations that has not looked at AI and applied these modern tools, it's kinda like, a person that has a handsaw and and a new chainsaw came out and they didn't start using that chainsaw when they're out, you know, competing against other companies and chopping up wood.
Denny Ghim:Right? If you're not using the chainsaw, you're gonna fall behind. And this is the same way I look at AI is it's a tool for us to use. So in one to two years, if you're not using it in a smart, efficient way, you're gonna fall behind. Don't let your competitors, beat you out when it jump into it.
Denny Ghim:Don't be crazy about it, but use it strategically. And then call person like myself or Promod, call us, let us help you, and then we'll help you walk through that process. Because, you know, just like any good guide, I mean, if you're out fishing in a in a big lake, you're not gonna catch a bunch of fish if you don't have a good guide or a depth finder and all the right tools. We're gonna bring you those tools. So that would be my message. But one to two years, yeah, gotta use AI.
Anthony Carrano:Let me ask you this. If another partner wanted to replicate your success, what's the one principle or mindset shift you tell them to adopt, you know, just to kind of keep that balance between the technical, people, and customer value and harmony?
Denny Ghim:I could tell you that at least for me and Promod, I feel it's all about transparency and relationship. So, you know, it's just like anything else. Right? If you're on the playground, you become buddies. You know, you're you're hanging out with that that guy all day long because you guys get along.
Denny Ghim:You have kind of the same mindset and everything else. So align there. I think that's a great place to start and that the rest will probably fall into place as you kind of understand each other's strengths. And between Promod and I, this is just my my thought is I recognize Promod's strengths and he recognized mine. And, you know, together we're able to really collaborate and do some really cool stuff together.
Promod Antony:Yeah, I agree with it, totally agree with what Denny was mentioning. And the other thing is the trust we actually build as we start doing multiple projects. That also help, right? And then I also mentioned that before, like we signed the agreement, make sure we are not getting into any other issues later. And those are very key.
Promod Antony:And then we meet in it's not just online meeting. We also meet several times on-site, actually. I've been working from home for more than two decades now, but there is that, as we are humans, there is that face to face meeting actually brings a next level of trust and that confidence, right? That actually also help in this process.
Denny Ghim:I think what I've been using a lot lately is the RI, the real intelligence, the human intelligence. So we pair the RI with the AI, and we get a beautiful thing, that comes together.
Rudy Rodriguez:Well, this is I think you guys exhibit and and are great examples of of I you know, one of the things that we've always preached at IAMCP about partnering together since I've been a member of IAMCP for thirty years now. So that's one of the things that you've done. So when partnering with another company let me ask this question. When partnering with another company, do you have criteria or a decision making process that you use to help you determine, you know, whether partnering will truly complement, you know, the strengths of you and your organization, you know, to help you build better solutions and deliver greater value for your customers?
Promod Antony:Yeah, of course. I mean, there is this company mission and vision, all those values, everything, right? So in any company, when they are partnering with any other company, there is that we look at those values and everything. And then those are the things which we look initially. And then later, when we get a chance to work together, we get to know a little bit more about the culture and the way they are working.
Promod Antony:If it's not aligned, we may not get the next project. It's mean, we may not proceed with the future projects. We will get to know in the initial project itself, we will be able to find out if it's a good fit or not.
Denny Ghim:I would say also clearly defined lines. So, we may find a partner that has some specific things that we need, but as long as we're able to clearly define the lines of, you you do this, we'll do this, As long as we can draw and delineate those lines clearly and have good communication, that really helps in building that, you know, third, fourth, fifth party partnership. And and, you know, it can be messy. Right? Because each organization is their own entity. Right? And they're used to maybe doing all of this, but now they're only doing this piece. And as long as that works out well, then we all eat well at the table. That's okay. You know? And that is really kind of, at least in my mind, how I like to work if we bring in other partners.
Anthony Carrano:Denny, I want to kind of go back to something. I do have another question, but there was, how do you, you mentioned earlier about RI plus AI. How how do you assess RI?
Denny Ghim:Well, you know, RI is what we're innately built in with. Right? Our our relational intelligence with each other. So, you know, machines, I'm I'm happy to say, at least this point, don't exhibit all of the little micro intonations and and communications and body language and, you know, kind of the understanding of what somebody's saying and how to interpret that. And then all of those little things.
Denny Ghim:Right? So those that's our eye. That's that's our old school sales platform. So all this talk of AI is wonderful, but I think we all need to really remember and ground ourselves that we're human. So a great mentor of mine, JP O'Donnell, who is part of the IAMCP in Seattle and brought me to the IAMCP there in Seattle, he says the human first, the human in the loop.
Denny Ghim:And I agree with that 100%. Like, that's the philosophy I've always followed is that no matter what happens, all this great technology and everything else, if that all poof disappear, it'd be us just left alone. So I look at marrying the best of what we can do in our relational, on the RI, the real intelligence of our human relationships, communications, understanding, even projecting the technology and how it can apply where AI may have not missed it, but has a different approach that you know, it's one thing when AI says, you know, hey, I'm gonna I'm gonna chop this off because it doesn't belong. Well, we're on our our eye says, hey, I don't think we should chop it off. Let's just let it linger on a little bit longer and see how it works out.
Denny Ghim:You know, that's the difference, right, between real intelligence and artificial intelligence.
Anthony Carrano:That's good. I appreciate you expounding upon that. So I've got just kind of one more question for both of you. And you've given just a lot of great perspective and things to think about here just in our time together. The last question here is if you can give your younger self one piece of advice about building partnerships in this ecosystem, what would it be?
Denny Ghim:I'll I'll I'll say it. Just just to be friendly and transparent. You know, I think a lot of times when you're I know I bring up a lot of analogies, but that's just the way I think about things.
Anthony Carrano:Yeah. I'm I'm still thinking about, you know, playing with the Tonka truck in the sandbox, man.
Denny Ghim:Well, you know, when you're when you're dating so my wife brings this up to me all the time, and I I always kinda not really think much of it, but she goes, you're the same guy that I I met the first day to to you are today. Like, there was no, you know, upfront different person. If you're just real and authentic, that's who you are. Like so our first date, I couldn't afford that first restaurant. I'm like, we gotta get out of here, and we left. She was really embarrassed, but that's just who I am. I'm pretty honest. Like, I was a college student. You know? $40, that's that was it. You know?
Denny Ghim:I that that place that steakhouse was, like, way over my head. I couldn't handle that. So, anyway, that would be my my thought is, you know, if I was to give any advice, it's just to be authentic and real. Don't try to present yourself as something that you're not.
Denny Ghim:People are super forgiving. So, like, as long as you're honest and you say, Hey, look. I don't understand maybe some of the things that you're presenting to me, but I'll learn it, and then I know how to apply it. You know?
Denny Ghim:That type of conversation will go a long ways as opposed to kind of faking something that's really not true and then just making something up along the way. Get yourself into trouble, you know? So that would be my advice to my younger self.
Promod Antony:So to me, it's it's actually a give and take policy, this partnership. It's not like in one way straight. Right? So the person who is trying to partner with us, they are trying to get something out of me, and I'm also trying to get something out of that that person. So in our case, Denny actually brought the sale.
Promod Antony:That's the I I'm not a salesperson kind of so Denny's expertise, actually, that is very helpful. And on the other hand, Denny is looking for that someone to develop that so that he gets so there should be something I obviously, it should be there should be something identifiable. So if I'm a little bit younger, maybe, like, ten, twenty years ago, if I'm doing redoing this, the whole business again, I will I will hire people who are certified certified in Microsoft ecosystem so that when when Denny brings a project, we can actually show all those Microsoft solution designations where it will be easier for Denny to bring in sales because Microsoft may be bringing all these opportunities to Denny or opportunities to me. So my thought is, like, if I hire people, more people who are already certified, that actually gets me to the solution destination to the, to the level where DINI can or any other partners can approach me, to do the projects.
Anthony Carrano:Excellent, excellent. Well, Pramada, Denny, thank you again. This was a fantastic time together. Always enjoy the perspectives and just throughout the conversation, so thank you. Before we go, for those listening, what's the best way folks can reach out and connect with you?
Denny Ghim:You can email me at dghim@SandlerPartners.com or call me on my cell, (503) 957-1143. If I'm not under a rock, I pick up. I'm an old school sales guy. I talk on the phone a lot.
Promod Antony:Yeah. That that's another thing. We whenever Denny calls, I will pick up because I know that there is if I don't pick up, I am missing a sales. I mean, so so we we actually always have that communication going on. Anyway, my you you can reach me on my LinkedIn or my email ID is promod.ante@logicintelligence.com.
Anthony Carrano:Excellent.
Promod Antony:Or my phone number will be in all the emails.
Anthony Carrano:Okay. Excellent. We'll be sure to have all the that information in the show notes as well. Well, Promod, Denny, thank you so much. Enjoy the rest of your day.
Promod Antony:Alright. Thank you. Thank you, Anthony. And thanks for giving the opportunity.
Denny Ghim:Yes. Thank you.
Promod Antony:Thank you. Bye.
Denny Ghim:Bye, guys.
Anthony Carrano:Well, that was a great episode. I really, really appreciate whenever we have Promod and Denny on. I I think, you know, Rudy, the thing I really enjoy is it's it's so rare that you see guys with, like, the different backgrounds. Like, you got, like, you know, sales marketing and then technology. A lot of times, they tend to be, you know, at odds, but in this, you know, situation, you just you just hear how well they work together, you know, as a model for, you know, how things really should be, you know, you know, in this space. So it's just really refreshing just to just to listen to these guys and and hear their story and their perspectives.
Rudy Rodriguez:Oh, very much so. You know, one of the things that happened in early on in the interview, both Denny and Promod exhibit the attitudes and the principles that should follow in a true P2P relationship, that they work together to build, you know, a a real partnership, you know, to create, you know, deeper in in their partnership level to create deeper and better real value solutions for their customers. And so how do you do that? Well, you build a relationship not only between you you you two, the the two partners, but also with your customers because then you understand their their needs a whole lot better. And if you have transparency in your relationship, then you build a real trust relationship.
Rudy Rodriguez:But when the trust relationship shows between two partners working together, customers pick up on that, and that helps you close and build better solutions and build a long term business relationship with your customers. So I really appreciated both of them kinda diving into that.
Anthony Carrano:Mhmm. That was really good. I mean, I really just there's a lot of just great input on just some sales advice. The thing that really and I'd never heard this before or maybe at least heard it this way before was when Denny at the end was sharing about the balance between having their the RI plus the AI, the relational intelligence with the artificial intelligence, and the role that they play, how they complement, and just even in the midst of, you know, how much, you know, AI, you know, is is not only just emerging, but, you know, just becoming a necessary component to remain competitive. But in the midst of all that, just the emphasis on, you know, a human first and and having that balance.
Anthony Carrano:I just really appreciated, you know, that perspective, especially as there's just so much coming out about that. So I thought that was really good, and I definitely took some notes and gave me some things to think about.
Rudy Rodriguez:Very much so. It was it was really a thoroughly enjoyable interview. I really appreciate the IAMCP Seattle team putting those two guys together and the work that Paul Solski is doing with the P2P group there.
Anthony Carrano:Mhmm.
Rudy Rodriguez:Well, thank you all for joining us on this episode of IAMCP Profiles in Partnership powered by Dunamis Marketing. We hope you enjoyed this podcast and find it useful and inspiring. If you did, please subscribe, rate, and review us on your favorite podcast platform. One of the best ways to partner for success is to join IAMCP, a community of Microsoft partners who help each other grow and thrive. IAMCP members can find and connect with other partners locally and globally and access exclusive resources and opportunities.
Rudy Rodriguez:Whether you're looking for new customers, new markets or new solutions, IAMCP can help you achieve your goals. To learn more, visit the website at www.iamcp.org.
